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The girl pictured in this article was living with us at the time this happened. She was rescued by her family and a deprogrammer. We received (in the mail) a note written on toilet paper from her asking us not to try and contact her. I believe I wrote about that in The Thread of Gold.
We never knew a thing about this article in the paper! (You know … we were sheltered in the non-information world of the LC.) The elders knew, but never told us. I did not see this article until many, many years later. I believe someone sent it to me after they read The Thread of Gold. They had been in the LC at the time, saw it, clipped it and saved it.
Another interesting thing is that what happened to me in chapter 1 of The Thread of Gold happened about a month after this article. (Not saying that I know there was a a connection between the two. However, I can’t help but note now that the church leaders took an assortment of people to speak to the Chronicle on behalf of Joyce and the church, and they did not include us–the people with whom she was living! I can’t help but wonder if they purposely left us out because they already had a plan of marginalizing us in the works.)
Suanne,
I just happened upon an article by Bob Edwards that was about what you posted. (I am thinking this might be where you found your information):
For anyone who is interested in a more in depth explanation, this link provides it. Very helpful. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Suanne.
This is very interesting, Suanne. It certainly fits with what I learned from Wade Burleson about this lemon verse, as I wrote in A Woman of Chayil:
Concerning the phrase, “usurp authority,” Burleson wrote:
This phrase “usurp authority” translates one Greek word authentein. This word is used only one time in all of Scripture—let me repeat that again—this word authentein is used only once in the entire Bible, right here in I Timothy 2:12. This word was used, however, in classical Greek literature and it meant “to murder someone.” Paul could have chosen nearly fifty Greek words to speak of the ordinary exercise of authority, but he chose a word that more represents someone “dominating, controlling, or subjecting one to harm.” Of course, this is precisely what the Artemis cult taught women to do. Artemis was the female goddess of fertility and war. Women in Ephesus were taught to use their voices, their charm, their sexuality and their beauty to dominate, control and subjugate men.
From what you wrote, it seems they also used potions! There must have been a pretty serious problem in the Church in Ephesus (it appears it was with women who had been converted from the cult of Artemis) for Paul to have to write about women not harming men physically (and possibly with potions!)
Anca,
I love this post! I just saw it (when I was writing up a quick summary about the retreat while it is still fresh on my mind.) Your take away statement is awesome, so I’m repeating it:
“… so God is saying for a woman not to withdraw herself and abandon her original call for dominion and responsibility over the earth alongside man, and that God would use her repentance and responsibility taking to do a new thing on the earth where woman will bring back and turn around man to the original command of Genesis!” AMEN! SO BE IT!
Dear Anca,
A lifetime friend (Karen) that is here at the retreat, came in a little late when we were reading your posts (aloud). When we finished, she made a comment that showed she thought what was being read was written by me… She was surprised to find out that it was you! Then another woman (EvFranklin1976) said she was going to post, “Dear Jane (Anca -wink wink-)” … and everyone started laughing … In other words, they were teasing me that I had made up another user named Anca and was posting as her ….. We all had a good laugh. We are all thanking God for you!
We’re taking a lunch break and will be back this afternoon. Jane
I wrote the above post several months ago when this forum was under development. Since then I have written more about complementarianism and egalitarianism in this article: Not Complementarianism or Egalitarianism but God’s New Creation Them.
The them message is so needed today! As I continue reading and researching on the internet, I see the them perspective emerging. Yesterday a friend sent me a link to a podcast done by Dallas Theological Seminary about gender and the Bible. Throughout it I could hear the them message even though sometimes a blurring complementarian fog rolled over it. Overall, I found the presentation very, very encouraging.
I am persuaded that the Spirit of God is moving to bring to light the truth about male and female together, which, after all, is the image of God (Gen. 1:26-28).
The following are some characteristics of groups (churches, ministries, organizations) that I see which make them a fit with the woman described in Revelation 17. I believe that when these things exist as established practices among those who say they are His people, God calls: “Come out of her my people.”
That means that if we find ourselves among a group of Christians whose practice any of the following things (bulleted) that are forbidden by the word of God, if they will not make a course correction, we should heed God’s call to “come out of her” and seek fellowship elsewhere. Such groups, according to Revelation 17, will experience “curses and plagues,” which we will also partake in, if we remain there. We will not be protected from attacks by the devil, because such ongoing sins give him legal ground to attack God’s people. They also hinder God answering His people’s prayers:
- Idolatry (serving or exalting or promoting persons, ministries, governing visions, or any thing more than Christ Himself; for example, absolute following of a gifted person or allegiance to one ministry as the only one that is of God. What do you hear about the most?)
- Presence of broken or damaged relationships in God’s family (the blood of the saints shed by others in the so-called family of God; sexual sin that is tolerated in the family of God; no evidence of reconciliation attempts as Jesus commanded (Matt. 18 and 5)
- “Lording-it-over” practices which result in woman having no standing of her own before God but only being allowed to ride on the back of hierarchical practices controlled by the great dragon (This includes exercising authoritarian male dominance over female believers.)
Agree? If so, what are some examples of these that you know about first hand or that you have read about on the internet from reliable sources? (Please check out your sources before you post links to them, or tell us that you haven’t checked them out!) Disagree? If so, please give biblical support for your disagreement.
Question: Can I upload an image or a pdf file?
Yes.
How: Use the “attachment” link (just above the SUBMIT button below). The size is limited, however, so if you get a file is too large message, use the “Contact Us” tab to ask if you can upload it. Give the particulars of your file (type and size) and the reason you need to upload it.
When you open an uploaded attachment, it will open in a new browser tab. Important: Use the back arrow to exit from it and return to where you were before opening it. If you close the tab, it will throw you out of the forum … hmmmm … this WordPress plugin feature needs improving!
Question: How can I tell what posts I have read and not read (are they marked some way?
Answer: A forum name that has unread posts in it will have a green exclamation point to the left of the forum’s name. When you open the forum you will see a green exclamation point to the left of any topics that have unread posts in them.
After you read all the unread posts under a topic, the green exclamation point will disappear from beside the topic name. Likewise, the green exclaimation point will disappear from beside the forum name when all unread posts in the forum have been read.
Jane Carole Anderson
Keymaster
(47.221.140.254)My question: How do I reply using a quote from the post I am replying to?
Answer: Copy the post with the author name you wish to quote and paste it into the reply space. Delete whatever you do not want to quote. Next, highlight the quote and click the third formatting button from the left (it has one large double quote mark on it). This will make your quoted text show up as a block quote when you click submit. You will not see the block quote format while in the visual editor. That is how I created this answer. (Yes, I know I am answering my own question … but remember, I am in testing mode! :P)
